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Denise Davis Discussion
Page history last edited by Michelle Oleson 2 yrs ago
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Planning Committee Presentation by Denise Davis 3-23-07
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Click here for a word document of the transcript of the discussion.
Planning Committee Discussion.doc
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Overview of Meeting
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| • Trends in library use: for the first time, at 55 people’s use of libraries is declining. More people under 35 are using libraries. More people with high school diplomas are using libraries. |
| • Trends in network continuing education: level of sophistication has increased: early technology education was Word, Excel; now it is web design and database adaptation. |
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• Trends in consortia: services increasing:
o Cooperative purchasing
o Continuing education (e.g., professional development for paraprofessionals; certification; not just technology training)
o Library advocacy: marketing, public relations (Major development here)
o Automation and technology – still big but different
o Information and referral
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• Trends in consortia: services declining:
o Standards and guidelines development
o Support for services to special populations (e.g., non-English speakers)
o Professional collections
o Rotating/shared collections
o Digitization/preservation
o Applying for e-rate on behalf of member libraries
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• Trends in consortia: Services staying level:
o Courier/document delivery
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• Observations:
o The larger the consortium, the slower to respond to trends
o Diverse funding streams have positive effect on consortium longevity
o Be entrepreneurial: what do you do well that you can make money on?
o Some states are discontinuing cooperatives: Idaho’s may disappear; Wyoming doesn’t need them; California has fewer.
o In Florida, erosion of authority at the State Library level provides a great opportunity for consortia to take on some of the roles formerly played by the State Library.
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Discussion
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| Question: I’d like to ask for your observations of the data. You’ve had an opportunity to see entities out there doing interesting things, and I’d like to ask for your anecdotal observations. That would be helpful. |
| Answer: A lot of the networks and coops are doing interesting things. This is from the current survey in the field, part of the detailed questions we’re asking for trends. Next 2-3-5 years. I have to tell you what’s going away. Apply for E-rate on behalf of member organizations is going away. Two reasons: application process so difficult, filtering requirement libraries backing away. K-12: state dept of education applies on their behalf, taken care of also going away.
Going away: digitization and other preservation activities going away, minimized. Investment still there if people want it.
Rotating and shared collections, less than it’s ever been in the past. Standards and guidelines that kind of thing. Except networks and coops active role in helping smaller libraries develop policies. Play that role fairly strongly. See that where networks and coops are administered at the state level. Less in the case for an organization like this, but is in other states.
Services to special populations. Expected it to remain the same but it’s dropping off. Increasing in Nevada, population aging. Same patterns Florida experienced in '60s and '70s. Retirees retiring there. Southern part of state not northern. Interesting tax implications there. Area where it will be level.
More and more state agencies asked to help libraries provide services and work collaboratively with other government agencies. So the role of the networking coop, special services, is an area we want to look at. An area that ALA is very interested in.
Where things are hopping:
CE, not professional development, but continuing ed. Some area are doing more training than they’ve ever done before, tend to be the really large networks, OCLC networks: Palinet, Solinet, BCR, Capcon DC based network shifted entirely to CE the same way Solinet did. Not so much state based networks and coops but those that have a corporate basis, OCLC networks.
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E-rate
OCLC
Palinet
Palinet's
myspace page
Solinet
BCR
CAPCON
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| Q: And is that mostly technology? |
| A: No, it’s everything. It’s virtual reference, reader services. Solinet has a grant from the Gates foundation to do a training & outreach in a niche market, literacy. |
Gates Foundation
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| Q: Have you seen any get into not library specific kinds of training, e.g. how to be a better supervisor or like that? |
| A: Capcon is doing a lot of management training. They have government libraries focus services. How it breaks in that region, public and academic libraries tend to use Palinet, based out of PA, even as far south of DC, they drive to Philadelphia instead of going into DC for training. Government libraries use Capcon, downtown Washington. Types of training two organizations do break at that point. Capcom doing how to manage a small government library; Palinet doing 'how do I manage a tech services dept for a multi branch library system'.
The other issue in that region, they borrow trainers from these institutions, four library schools Drexel, Rutgers, Catholic, & Maryland U, libraries pay library schools to do training. Well developed. Library association leverage those library schools as well. Similar pattern in NY and Chicago areas where you have multiple library schools.
One other thing we’re seeing, won’t know until final date out, west of Mississippi, library networks and coops contracting. Washington state, Idaho, Oregon, and part of CA, contracting with BCR for training. BCR hiring faculty from Emporia university to do training in Portland, Oregon. Training for paraprofessionals, certification model. Western council of libraries, state officers west of mississippi, training plan for paraprofessionals. Pushing that. Emporia university grabbed onto that. States are members of BCR, using membership with network/coop to buy service of Emporia as a service for their members. Colorado big on that too, but not sure how much they actually participate in it.
Professional development for paraprofessionals but not MLS staff. Seeing more and more of. Hybrid situation.
Coop purchasing and group discounts not going away, leveled, what you’re buying is different, but not going away.
Courier services are different. Basic service not expanding. Number of questions about courier service. One state, either KY or OH, have statewide courier service, networks and state are party to. Looking at subcontracting to other states. Being entrepreneurial. What you do well that you could grow.
INR, information referral, virtual ref, almost gone as a service. First services to be lost by networks and coops as libraries became more self sufficient.
Growing the most: advocacy, PR and marketing. Single largest area that we’re seeing pop. So much so preliminary study, marketing itemized as an expenditure in this survey so we capture what we’re spending on marketing.
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Drexel
Rutgers
Catholic
Maryland U
Emporia university
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| Q: What does advocacy mean in that context? |
| A: Local governance and state lobbying. For money, legislative. Local advocacy to retain or gain revenue. |
| Q: Is that for their members or for themselves? |
| A: For the members. In fact IL has a fairly, regional networks, sophisticated advocacy programs right now. Training other regionals on how to setup marketing services. |
| Q: Nancy had asked me to talk about the misconceptions. |
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A: A list was developed through interviews with individuals who managed for a longtime network/coop/consortia or a state librarian instrumental in forming their state. Part of the challenge (OH by state law they had five networks and coops, public library info network codified state leg paid for them directly not part of library revenue operate independently through state library managed them and determine the staff and every state library member of the network, of the 5 they eliminated 2. make better use of resources elsewhere state budget being cut. Where OH in the past had been good about isolating money for statewide databases for institutions and libraries, seeing restrictions on what they could afford to fund and cutting back on other services. Even though $s isolated and robust, being reduced, state lib had to manage what they had with state resources, cut back on network services). Not only does perceived concept of competing for limited $s, real competition for limited $s. The other is libraries that we’ve heard from networks and coops whose membership dropped in latest 7-8 years, after 2000, saw declines in membership. Libraries had to make decisions about where to put money. $30,000 a year to be a member for their network, not seeing benefit for membership, pull out of network or coop. not happening wildly, but it is happening. Libraries making difficult decisions @ the services they wish to receive. Interesting, researcher follow-up on these libraries, discovering where they left the network, technology expenditures higher than their membership was. Reasons were political reasons. Scenario: board says cutback, find $30,000 what are you getting from this service director can’t explain the value. Next year library self supported on backbone and IT goes through the roof. Now costing us $5,000 more to retain this membership, get it back.
Populations change that you serve. Views and perspectives on kinds of service providing change and you have to respond to that. Plays out in what we’re hearing here, uneven local support. We don’t have, a lot of what we’re gathering quantitative good bit qualitative: your perception of this, network and coops directors in place for more than 10 years seen a lot of change in their organization and managed to survive. Missed opportunities to cultivate local library champions. Played out interestingly, networking coop directors in many ways disconnect between relationship lib admin with network coop and relationship library board has with library coop. Llibrary director/admin is official rep of lib system to network or coop. boards don’t really interact. One way channel of information. E.g. Oftentimes Charlie not invited to board meeting to talk to board members about services organization provided. He could be. Missed opportunities to make communication more transparent. What you or Charlie might learn from what trustees are saying about expectation and representing your community, crazy or really great board members. Helps support overall the library and library cooperative.
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| Q: Library boards, actual board advisory only, governance through county commission who basically says they trust you to do library stuff just don’t spend more money than we gave you. Want to hear wonderful things, stand in front of things and take credit but they don’t know you exist. Not sure that’s a bad thing. Library advisory board does, hard pressed to see what you do. All about the library, not the coop. Charlie’s here to make you look good. Actually Beth’s job, particularly good at it. |
| A: Some libraries felt they would have overcome an obstacle if more understanding of role of coop in the success of library, failed to let them now of that partnership. |
| Q: Right now we may see the opposite. Cooperatives have more advocacy horsepower than libraries. We have a good lobbyist right now. |
| A: You’re apolitical. Libraries would never attempt to do things you do. How the associations in some states, extraordinarily pro-active. Whereas the libraries they represent cannot be.
Seeing advocacy growing. Things we want to say to elected officials not allowed to say, but Charlie can say them.
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| Q: One of the things that strikes me, look state by state, some states networks look differently in different areas. Are there trends between consolidations of networks in CA, folded into one another; CO regions established in a single service center created to do the things the regions did statewide; OH shrinking somewhat; same happened IL to some extent; metaphor for this there is no here or there. Is there a trend, take away messages, things to learn about what’s going on? |
| A: Part of the study included an environmental scan, survey positions networks and coops in a particular space and time. One thing, the good news is we're federally funded, so I can say whatever I want in the study. Bad news, ALA pick will this up as messaging. What the data tells us and people tells us rubs against libraries. That is, perception of competing for funds issue. Many libraries, predominately academic, decide that the big 10 could get together and bully vendors into pushing prices down. Created highly informal structures for purchasing. Opened the door in early 1990s to literally 1000s informal purchasing agreements among and between academic institutions with publishers. Undercut value of library networks & coops in the US. Didn’t do it single-handedly, created enormous void. Vendors no longer would go to Charlie and say what to negotiate for members. They go to Harvard, Florida State, SE Florida, go to institution, expect institution to push friends & colleagues into agreement. Bypass established structure, organization that really represents its members. Undercut themselves.
Other reality, little evidence informal networks and coops, consortia, that exist largely in higher education arenas that has in fact driven price, commoditized these services. Institutions in fact paid fair market value because vendors realized losing market share and raised the price. That model did not help libraries one bit. The evidence is there. Academic libraries spend more for virtually the same services they had 10 years ago. Used to argue they had it multiple formats, CDs, online services, print, etc. Simply not true. Now in place where paying for article rather than per journal and paying much more. Talk about serial pricing trajectory 470% over a decade, no one to blame but themselves. No one to blame but ourselves.
Reality, as Gary pointed out, all this stuff is going to web, and going quickly. When you think about value of network or coop in helping you, in many ways because they have the staff infrastructures, they can in fact bargain down prices slightly on a service. What they typically can do, however, is bargain for more service for same price. So Charlie’s group may negotiate some ridiculous agreement for automation say only top end libraries serving large pop benefit most from. Libraries service pop much smaller will have access to services they never could have afforded. Getting value-add that you never could have achieved on your own by buying cooperative.
Another issue: marketing advocacy piece. State library of Maryland, directors Charlie Robinson, Irene Pedea, Ron Gislowsky, Agnes Griffin, (huge names). Completely overshadow directors in rest of state of 24 directors. State library decided that good thing to do for them bring someone from marketing in to create a marketing plan, 1994-ish. One meeting. We don’t need marketing, we can do it ourselves. 2003, they hired a marketing consultant to help directors. All those directors had retired, new directors really didn’t know how to do marketing, & probably thought they should do some marketing as a group for their libraries. 1994 too early. Painful for really big directors to say that. Part of the value, MY one of those states with regionals and not network/coops, regional directors could benefit from what larger libraries doing and replicate it to some extent. Flip model of how to learn about marketing. A little skewed. Advocacy and marketing largest growth areas.
Automations still there, but different. What constitutes technology. Two big areas.
An aside: Maryland library association fit the bill for household survey of residents’ value of libraries in Maryland. Did they value librarians over teachers, firemen, police, etc. the study very positive, love libraries. Take the study to state legislature, woman so happy about study pushed it through as state aid package increase to public libraries $1 year over 3 years. Return on Investment study, marketing subtle but it works. Not a lot of money but it’s pushed MY libraries up about 4 states per capita. OH $65 per capita, MY $54 per capita. It’s ridiculous.
We’ve been able to do things that make funders think we’re getting good value but not things that make them look in their pockets for more money. That’s the trick.
Just spoke to Mary Bicond, just got librarian of the year, because she helped push that though state legislature.
States that will have no networks or coops in the next decade. Either through redistribution of resource or library districts interceding and take on role. Idaho, with another state librarian change, could have no networks. Wyoming has none but they don’t need any. Very good library funding. Law established state lib in 1850s codified state libraries, plenty of money. More buffalo than people. WV had but got rid of, could do more with state funding. States always have them: NY, NJ, PA. MY could get rid of regionals, originally there for research sharing and reference took on the sailor backbone and virtual reference. Could be eliminated when not needed, have to be eliminated due to codifying. County based library service = fewer networks/coops. More and more districts of libraries communities annexed together independent library distracts, overarching districts works well west of Mississippi. Texas will always have them because state is so big; can’t operate otherwise. CA has fewer, but also multi-type. Bay Area. Not just public: public, academic, and K-12. State library less of a role than ever. Interesting to see how played out.
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| Q: Is there a connection between changes in impact of the state library and the changes in the consortia? State libraries taking over, & consortia going away. |
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A: Yes. Look at FL in last 4-5 years erosion of authority in Tallahassee. Remains opportunity for networks/coops/consortia currently established in Florida to have much stronger role in the state. Huge opportunities for libraries to absorb that and push control down below state level and advocate for that to stay that way. Challenge is to pry the money away from state librarian and get it distributed. This may be your opportunity to do that.
WV pushing everything back to the state. That state librarian will probably retire in next few years and whole thing could flip for WV. JD’s built good will for legislature, sits with dept of cultural services & education, museums, school and parks. Great relationship with state legislatures. Next state librarian could turn that upside down. Universities might be strong enough by them to pull services back in.
Minnesota, Minne-Tech’s single largest networks and politically powered organization in the country. They would be the state librarian if they have their way. Politically contentious situation there. State library told to give millions of dollars to Minne-Tech to do services, and don’t think about shopping around. Not an uncommon model, but most extreme situation.
IL networks and coops peculiar relationship with dept of state where state library sits. Unusual situation. Networks/coops operate independently and rely on members more than state library. Always operate in complete or virtual isolation.
Indiana strong network system. State library administers part of that. University fairly strong. Higher education in state legislature vs. education K-12. varies state to state.
Idaho could do both.
Ohio current state librarian being willing to redistribute. Have to watch how it plays out. Lost a lot. Moved libraries for the blind off state money over to federal. Big mistake. Should have made state keep paying.
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| Q: Important for a group like this one, not relating to planning effort, generally relates to future of libraries in relationship to state library, consciousness about these issues how they’re evolving and moving, because we’re at a pretty interesting juncture at this moment. 1998, voters change constitution to eliminate elected office of secretary of state. We can see what the fruit of that is. While I think we’ve got people at the state agency who work very hard, I don’t think it’s entirely clear what future will/can be like. each of people in this room, their institutions, must think more autonomously to ensure needs are met. May have to more ways to do things. Needs that can’t be met that way, not meaning to undercut anything or be critical, but when we look around and see changing circumstances, at some point we need to make things better or different, and we may be in that kind of case right now. Dept of state had 900 employees when last governor came in, and we have 400 now. What does he want to do, what can reasonably be expected even with all the support we’ve been given. Sometimes change happens just because ammunition of one of partners and it’s good idea to be mindful and conscious of that we can guide things in a positive direction. |
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A: Actually what is interesting at 30,000 ft level, look for gaping holes, state libraries were the single greatest advocate for formation networks/coops in US, dedicated LSTA funding for them with expectation unserved populations could be served by larger services. predominately rural states, no library on every corner, put books on van, truck, train, buggy and they get there. How advocated, & demonstrate providing services. We now have libraries, state libraries, 50% in dept of education. 26 states are dept of educations. 50% of them only provide library development services. Either provides statewide training or some level of service, they give supplements. No collections, staff other than consultants in particular areas, youth services etc. That’s a lot of state libraries are basically are funding agencies, give grants. Notion that your state library used to be very robust, could very well an archive and grant organization.
State libraries have been successful and survived are those that have been willing to make difficult decisions about the kind of operation they are. State library board in mid 90s lost more than half of its staff in a legislative decision. Positioned state library to be place for all state government documents to pass thru. Digitize them and put them back out. 10 years later successful but took a beating when it happened. still provide service to government, biggest part of what they do, library development give state aid. Notion that they are collection of last resort for libraries in state, eliminated. Were selling books on ebay. Stack space with no books, providing more service to state government than ever before, desktop. Invested in technology and people skills to do desktop reference assistant to government agencies. Carved out 2 clear inches. Library for blind and handicap. 2 big services they provide, only 3.5 million people. Tough decisions.
Things they don’t do: library advocacy and marketing. Drew line on kinds of support they would have.
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| Q: Jackson County, Oregon, whole public library… |
Jackson Co. Libraries
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| A: County based system. Operating on logging money, money not being renewed. Discount kickbacks from feds to not log. Grant went away. Election in May. Ballot initiative to increase funding for public libraries and schools. If it fails, double majority, in the first ballot passed by majority vote. Passes first fine. If fails, no majority of yes votes. Goes to November ballot. November ballot needs majority of Oregon voters to vote and to say yes. Oregon has mailed ballot. Oregonians vote by not mailing in the ballot. If no pass in May, they close and don’t reopen until the ballot initiative in November. |
| Q: Do you think the ballot initiative is something that’s coming down the pipe around the country? |
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A: They knew this was happening. I guess they thought the grant would get extended. They’ve known about this for years. Jackson county fairly affluent community. Lacks real industry, only logging and fishing. Problem communities/counties. Number of libraries close because no money. Buffalo nearly closed, whole system, no money. April 1, Jackson county first public library system in the country to be wholly closed. First whole system shut down. Enough national attention?
Study 2 years ago, number libraries have flat funding for multiple years, no increase. Had to give raises every year, effectively less and less money to spend. Utility cost of operating much higher. Issue for small libraries, small service areas especially. People choosing sewage and waste water treatment over libraries and public education.
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| Q: Things to harvest from the group, or facilitate, sparks conversation about things we might take into account with our plan? |
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A: The orange sheet you have is summary of board of directors’ focus group. Asked them similar questions to the ones that you discussed at first meeting.
1. What were biggest challenges facing libraries in next 5 years?
2. Prioritize those.
a. Staffing, recruitment, salaries
b. E-government, shift of services from various government agencies: dept of children and families into libraries. E-services required, forms and applications.
c. Technology piece: rapidity of changes, software upgrades, constant training required to address that, Vistas issues unknown, Vistas impact on wireless access& bandwidth, need for increasing bandwidth, sheer numbers of computers
d. Money, property tax reform nervousness
House committee on budget readjustment voted to decrease state aid and decrease funding to multi-type properties. Senate, similar committee, however kept funding the same.
3. Knowing what you do about TBLC and its services, what things do you think need to change in order to address these concerns?
a. CE piece, the benefit to libraries with threats/challenges coming concerns.
b. E-government
c. technology
d. money
e. roles for TBLC in those areas
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MicroSoft Windows Vistas
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| Q: Based on what Denise has talked about this afternoon, what are you observations about the direction we need to be thinking about as TBLC prepares its plan for the next several years? Are you seeing any connections here between what’s happening here in our region and what’s happening at the 30000 ft level? |
| A: What should TBLC be doing in the next few years, several marketing items. A national trend. Finding out what everyone else is doing to facilitate this. We have ideas here, but we need what other organizations are doing. |
Sarah Long, IL North Suburban Reg. Library |
| Q: Trends in youth issues. More under 35 yr olds. Change in demographic usage. Over 55 plays out strongly here in Florida. Some more detail about accounts for those shifts since that’s a big shift seen over past years? |
| A: Over 55 issue, investigating in more detail. Area we have some concerns. Population aging, 50% over age of 65 by 2010. My office is paying particular attention to under 35 piece, it typically in last couple of household studies we’ve done, race ethnicity distribution been pretty stable, African American use and young adults up to age 45 use public libraries for education and job seeking. Hispanics using public libraries for entertainment, doesn’t matter the age. An area we’re paying close attention to. The drop in over 55 use, we’re going to study again next year. First year become an anomaly. Pretty much what happens is 60-70% up to age 65 use library, over 65 drops to 45%. This year dropped substantially, function of internet access in home, families have more disposable income, buy own books and use library less, or a one year anomaly. |
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Q: Kind of make sense that age group just past late 50s, that’s the first cohort of population that has had significant chunk of life lived in electronic environment. If they can get entertainment and education needs met without leaving the house, why do it?
All the more reason for libraries to do this to keep them connected to the library.
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| A: University Pittsburgh similar household study, use of electronic resources library owned from your home. We’re waiting for that study to be released. He, Don King, did not see a significant decline over last year. |
| Q: Other things to make sure we bring up later? |
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A:
1. Continuing Education & Training.
2. Trend spotting – assistance, application of that trend
Know why these things are happening
Follow-up
How to Co-op
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| Q: Other kinds of libraries besides public that struck you? |
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A:
1. Trends- heavy reliance on Google. Lack of a need for more resources. Cuts across all lines. Same issue in academic libraries and academic law libraries. I don’t need your resources, I’ve got Google.
2. Changes in relationships of Google with vendors, essentially where this is headed, students will find your e-resources on Google, authenticate through there & go there.
Academic Library Directors Symposium at Berkeley. Google negotiating with Innovative for exactly that.
Sounds almost like objective is how to get your licensed resources indexes on Google so that your users can locate their content there, click, authenticate, and use.
Innovative working on new product, Encore, which would duplicate Endeca products. NC State University partnered with Endeca. Innovative’s Encore would do the same thing. Innovative is trying to work with Google to do exactly that. Desire to do a Google search and have everything there. Choose from the best. Value-added extras & one stop shopping. We need to get our resources up there.
Education, discovering Education has done that will do that. Compete with Google or get them on Google. Ease of use matter.
Frustrating for all libraries. How many databases we’ve got and have to search each one. Different search interface for each of them. All worse than Google. Explosion in innovation coming. Best federated search is not nearly as good as the worst Google search. Encore product incorporates everything: spell check, subject heading suggestions, federated searching. Cool and expensive, though half the price of an Endecca product.
3. Concern for library users accepting without question as authoritative anything they found on Google. News last night about wikipedia? Feature on Wikipedia and why it was not always dependable as a source and some school districts stopped allowing wikipedia as a source. The public seems to in general think it’s the same as Encyclopedia Britannica. No college age student should be using an encyclopedia as a source.
Good quick overview to point you in a direction.
4. Opportunity for having our databases included in Google search, some way for us to know usage of that, or ability for us to fund those databases goes away. For right now, now used very much but we can count how often they’re used. Hopefully when it goes to this other method, federated search through Google, until must be some way locally for us to measure usage or we can’t go to our funding source and know how many times something has been used. Problem with federated search engine.
5. Sustainability, building libraries, maintain that level of service or cost over years. Statistics provided are eye openers, staff expenditures. Loss of paraprofessional staff when positions come open. Decline in professional staff.
Didn’t mention retirements.
Share some information within consortium and somehow bring in folks who’ve had some success in driving their organizations to some sustainability, strategies, helpful.
Collection expenditures continue to decline, and books on shelves, disconnect. Break out independent expenditures and look at that.
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Academic Library Directors Symposium at Berkeley
Innovative
Encore
Endeca
NC State University
Wikipedia
News piece
Encyclopedia Britannica
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| Q: When will report be completed, gathering all information and data? |
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A: Friday afternoon of ALA June this year in DC, networks and coops project advisory committee meets and will release preliminary finding of study there. With findable database with library coops who responded, how much they spend and how much they staff, etc. Slides and things on the website to help understand the key findings. End of June, preliminary.
Beginning of September, final report. About halfway finished now, 100 pages. Break into chunks. Data tables, static table son responses, contact info on coops reported in survey. Bibliography as well. Interviews conducted, summary, individuals identified. Data set available and searchable at end of June.
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ALA Conference
ALA's myspacepage
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| Q: Why expenditures are somehow a measure of health or success of the library? |
A: Certainly ways to do things more efficiently, business what to cut expenditures as much as possible…
Per capita expenditures on a service. How are measuring the service that is provided? Right now they’re outputs, number of usage, circulation, visits, hours open, etc. Hours open increasing, visits are up, circulation increasing. Good thing? Yeah. Doing things more efficiently, except for libraries serving 10,000 or fewer, cuts of over 11%. Suburban and urban libraries, 500,000 population served, budgets stable or increasing.
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| Q: Speculation as to whether Florida’s population is shrinking? |
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A: Article in Miami Herald about Broward County’s pop actually declining. New school term started, projections for new students were dramatically low. Perceptions that because of hurricane insurance and property tax issues, Florida looking at negative population growth or dramatically reeducated population growth. Arithmetic used to project state revenues, what’s being talked about is we’re in a slump. When will we be out of it? 8 months, 18 months, 24 months? Phenomenon occurring now, hard time seeing and interpreting. Pretty unusual.
Florida’s not a cheap place to come to, retire to, and live in.
Don’t do: Nevada. Only source of revenue is sales tax. Population growing more rapidly than Florida, building everywhere, library and schools cannot expand. Our (FL) geniuses are proposing.
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Miami Herald about Broward Co. decreasing population
New article claiming growth continues
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Click here for JPG of Notes from Discussion
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Denise Davis Discussion
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